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Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions?? 
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Graphics Card: 7600 GO
Post Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Dear HP, the fight isn't over.

First off, I want to apologize for everyone for being MIA for a while. I will admit that getting my new laptop kept me off the site for a while, but we still have a lot of unfinished business here and HP has not won the fight.

Since HPLies began, we averaged 100-200 visits a day for the first few months. 6 months in, we are now averaging 500-600 unique visits a day. This means we are GENERATING A LOT OF INTEREST! This site is very specific and fills a very specific niche. The fact that we get this much traffic makes it clear that the problem is still active. So what can you do?

  1. Number one rule: DO NOT GIVE HP A PENNY. Not for one repair, not for a new replacement, give them nothing. If you pay them, they win. Trust me, the laptop will only die again anyways. It's better to leave them without $400 than to get your laptop working for a few months.

  2. Please keep posting the link everywhere you can: blogs, forums (esp HP forums if you haven't yet been banned), and emails.

  3. Support the site by checking out an ad if it looks interesting to you - I'm not encouraging stupid clicks, but I want to be clear that all ads on this site are clean and safe

  4. USE GOOGLE! Instead of going to hplies.com in your browser, google phrases like hp nvidia defect (#4 right now) and just click it. This boosts our rankings and helps our searchability. Currently, the BEST one to search would be nvidia defect. It is the FIRST result on the second page, if we could boost that up to the front page that would be huge. We used to be around the 17th page so I'm sure we could do it!


The general cycle of getting a replacement from HP and how to deal with it:

  1. The first repair is the hardest to get (for free). They'll gladly have you pay out of your pocket. To get it for free, the key is persistence. Do not hang up the phone, do not accept half off offers, and refuse to leave until you can talk to someone who will help. Don't even bother talking to lower level support - they are trying to help, but only a case manager can grant you a free repair. Here is a list of Customer Service Order Numbers from successful free repairs. Cite these, ask why you aren't being treated the same. Make threats with the BBB and your state's AG office. Get that free first repair, you need it to continue! Share your experiences & problems on this site to get advice from people who have gone through all of this - DO NOT JUST GIVE UP, THIS IS WHAT THEIR SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO DO!

  2. The 90 day repair warranty is your friend. If your laptop dies again within that 3 month window, you are guaranteed another free repair. Do not expect a replacement after the first repair, patience is key. You will have to send it in 3 times total before they consider a replacement. Your laptop WILL die again, it is only a question of whether it will happen in the 90 day period. Make sure it does. Check out The GPU temperatures discussion for some pretty common trends on heat & the laptop's life. If you call and make a complaint about safety, they pretty much have to have you send it in - this counts as a repair. If they try to walk you through troubleshooting steps, just say "Yes, I did that" to all of them. Make sure it does not last past the 90 days or you will have to go back to Step 1 again! They load your GPU with cooling paste and give you BIOS updates to crank up the fan for the sole purpose of trying to last it beyond the 90 days, don't let it work.

  3. The replacement. After your laptop has gone in for repair 3 times, you are now allowed to kick and scream until you get a replacement. As Terin has pointed out, there are lemon laws against this kind of customer mishandling, and you have every right to a new machine. They will try to offer you that 4th repair, you need to laugh at them and make it very clear that this is not even an option in your head. Don't play down to their game and make it seem like a 4th free repair is a reasonable option. Eventually, with enough persistence and (calm) threats, you will be offered a replacement laptop.



What I am doing now is reworking the Letter to Mark Hurd. We now have 765 entires into the database which is around 2-3 times more than the first letter.

If you have any suggestions for the new letter, please post them as replies to this topic! I will take every idea into account as I rewrite and add to it. Any articles, statistics, or customer support stories (nightmares) are welcome

Thanks!

_________________
"I don't want to know. I don't need it. I don't want the information that millions of people have. I don't want to be fed these boring facts and figures. Then you'll become one of the masses. I'd rather starve my mind a bit and have to search out nutrition in stranger places."

~ Henry Rollins, 1961


Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:39 pm Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:56 am

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Graphics Card: 7600 GO
Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Hello Evey,

First of all, I wish to thank you for all the things you've done so far. I believe that efforts like yours are the ones that will make the difference in this whole situation.

Recently, I found the following articles doing some googling:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/03/faulty-nvidia-c/

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137385/nvidia-bad-bumps-worse


I hope this may help you with your on-going work. I think that we will achieve success ONLY if we pursue the fight for our RIGHTS. Because, as I said initially in NVIDIA DEFECTIVE GPUs thread on HP's business forums:

"PLEASE...DON'T GIVE UP ON THIS...WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET OUR LAPTOPS REPAIRED OR REPLACED ABSOLUTELY FREE OF CHARGE BECAUSE OF THESE DEFECTIVE CHIPS THAT SCREWED UP OUR LAPTOPS..."

By now, I believe that the only EFFECTIVE way for us is to claim a TOTAL REFUND or CREDIT (at least) due to HP's INABILITY to perform the (so-called) repairs without using the same (already) KNOWN DEFECTIVE PARTS...


Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:40 pm Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:16 pm

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Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
May I suggest a reference to those of us outside of the US. An International slant may be a powerfull message to someone in his position.

If the original letter fell on deaf ears and clearly there has been no satisfactory answer, then I think it is worth copying the letter to other execs too. The more people you address the more likely it is that you will come across somebody in the organisation that is prepared to do the right thing (both by you guys and ultimately for HPs customer relations and reputation) . I believe Paulette Hughlock is a complaints exec, she may be more inclined to act, particularly if you make it clear you have her "boss" in the loop. ie. state in the letter where/who copies have been sent to. I would also re-stress the damage that this is doing to their reputation, refer to other sources, their credibility and numbers of people involved where HPs name is getting bad mouthed due to this defect, (they probably won't visit the sites but refering to severall of them should force the point).
I think it may also be wise to try to avoid sounding like a bitter customer with a chip on the shoulder, try to keep the tone of the letter matter-of-fact and try to not sound too confrontational, but obviously it has to be firm.

Anyway, those are my opinions. I hope you guys all get a good outcome. I've posted my story elsewhere but if it helps there are people within HP that will help you, its just finding them that is the dificult bit.

Good luck


Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:20 am Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:29 pm

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Location: Barbados


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Model Number: RL653AV

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Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
I agree to reference those outside the US. I am one of the unfortunate persons who were ripped off from outside the US... this time the Caribbean. Now to you, you lost $2000, to me I lost $4000 and I assure you, that can buy 4 laptops here. Also, I do not want anything from those HP people anymore, except a check with the said amount, so forget the replacement. I gave them enough chances, they told me enough lies... who is to say they won't do it again?


Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:43 am Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:37 am

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Model Number: RG286UA

Serial Number: CNF6414XXX

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Graphics Card: 6150 GO
Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Hi -- A great first letter. Here are my suggestions for letter #2:

1. mention that when the motherboard is replaced, all of our data and post-purchase software are deleted. The machine is returned in its original state. It took me hours to reload all of my files and software and MS Service Packs. I've had to do this twice. As a consultant, this is billable time I am wasting because of HP's and Nvidia's incompetence.

2. my symptom was that the wireless card would stop working and not be visible to the computer. So I thought I had a wireless problem, and wasted a lot of time checking the wireless connection, the router, had calls with my service provider, etc. Even HP's technical support were clueless on many calls, and made me remove the wireless card and re-install it. What a waste of time. So many of us are having our problems misdiagnosed.

3. Nvidia took a $196 million writedown last summer to address complaints about the failed GPUs. Here is a quote from its press release: "During the second quarter of fiscal 2009, NVIDIA recorded a $196 million charge against cost of revenue to cover anticipated customer warranty, repair, return, replacement and associated costs arising from a weak die/packaging material set in certain versions of our previous generation MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems."

Hmm, since Nvidia is not replacing the GPUs for end customers, then this money must be going to HP and Dell to subsidize or reimburse them for the cost of these warranty repairs. So does that mean that these repairs are not costing HP any money? Hurd needs to explain this. Could it be that HP is actually making money from this situation? Taking liquidated damages monies from Nvidia, and then withholding repairs to consumers?


4. Demand that the warranty be extended to at least 3 years from time of purchase.


Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:30 am Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:27 am

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Laptop Type: TX1332la

Model Number: GX996LA

Serial Number: CNF73723G2

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Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Hi everyone...

Maybe this is not the best place for this, but I have the same problem with my lap

The only difference is I live in Mexico, so I was wondering if there's another way to get my laptop repaired or changed or something else..

I got my notebook from Telmex.. I have to pay like 50 bucks each month to pay my computer from 36 months, this is like $2600 US dollars... Wich is bad.. Besides my mom is really pissed off 'cause we're still paying the lap even it doesn't work..

The PROFECO (Bureau of customers) Can't do anything, by mexicans laws, we're screwed. What can we do?

They are not gonna getaway with this


Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:35 am Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:37 pm

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Serial Number: CNF75151HM

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Graphics Card: 6150 GO
Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
hi Megamangel i think i know who you are, you are also posting in the HP Soporte forums right? im from mexico too and i have a tx1332la with the same problem, try this website http://concilianet.profeco.gob.mx/conci ... inicio.jsp is a site where you can file complaints online against HP and others companies, you will need a scan of the invoice or receipt of your laptop and a scan of yur IFE ID.
I dont know if its going to work but im translating the letter to Mark Hurd and adding some information about my defective laptop and also claiming that in the rest of the world customers are getting their laptops repaired for free but here in Mexico we are being discriminated just because we are latin americans im going to ask for a refund or replacement because my laptop is a risk sometimes the temperature on the gpu are above 100°C. Try that if you want i can send you a copy of the letter in spanish, and also you should ask telmex, maybe your laptop is insured or something like that. Suerte


Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:22 pm Profile
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Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Mention the amount of negative publicity they're getting from us and drop in sales. We're basically killing their marketing. Sure, they make a quick buck off of some people who don't know -- but they'll eventually find out.

Also, adding in the 800 registered S/N's is a good start too.

I also think it'd be pretty nice to have a "personal" section in the forum where you can place your personal story in your profile, so it's easy to manage. Make it suggested to include dates/etc. That'd be really sweet -- and then compile that in the entire letter. We could easily make it 100+ pages with the stories appended to HP.

Additionally, we should organize something against HP -- such as creating a giant claims case. Does anyone know of any lawyers who would be willing to pool some money together to sue HP?


Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:36 pm Profile

Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 10:08 pm

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Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
I have quite a simple idea which I know could be quite effective. I've stolen the idea from a relative who purchased a defective mp3 player from sony and it helped them a lot.

Somebody, somewhere, find a quote from a senior person in HP (board of directors, CEO, etc) with something along the lines of 'HP is trying hard to increase market share' or 'encouraging a good brand image' - basically, something saying that they are taking steps to have a good reputation. This could be from a blog, vlog, news artical, magazine article etc.

Tell them the quote, and then why they are failing/will fail.

Its very simple really!
Alistair


Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:55 pm Profile

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:03 am

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Post Re: Working on Letter to Mark Hurd Version 2 - suggestions??
Disgruntled student wrote:
I have quite a simple idea which I know could be quite effective. I've stolen the idea from a relative who purchased a defective mp3 player from sony and it helped them a lot.

Somebody, somewhere, find a quote from a senior person in HP (board of directors, CEO, etc) with something along the lines of 'HP is trying hard to increase market share' or 'encouraging a good brand image' - basically, something saying that they are taking steps to have a good reputation. This could be from a blog, vlog, news artical, magazine article etc.

Tell them the quote, and then why they are failing/will fail.

Its very simple really!
Alistair


There are plenty of quotes here: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/ethics/index.html
They're more along the lines of ethics and being good to customers than increasing market share, but the same idea. I used a lot of quotes from that site in a letter to the board of directors telling them how they are failing quite miserably at being a company "known for its leadership in corporate ethics and responsibility" and conducting their business "with uncompromising integrity." It got me no where, but may be more beneficial when included with all the data from this site.

Chris


Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:44 pm Profile
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